Blogger: Janet Kobobel Grant
The other day I read an article by an editor in which she said that while we “industry professionals” become mired in correct grammar, strong structure in a manuscript, a well-thought-out premise–and in fiction, engaging characters and no head-hopping–the readers care about one thing: Engaging content.
Really? I’ve been an avid book reader from the moment my mother helped me to figure out how to read. And I have to say that I think it takes more than a compelling storyline to keep me going. If I find the research lacking or incorrect, the author loses all credibility for me. I’m done with that book!
If a novelist can’t follow the sometimes challenging assignment of staying in one character’s head per scene, I’m not feelin’ the love for that author and am tempted to set the book aside.
I recently read a very good book, but the author kept writing about “me and __________,” which caused me to shout out the correct usage of personal pronouns before I threw the book across the room. (I did, I confess, later pick the book up and keep reading it, but I was sorely tempted to stop.)
So am I a reading snob? Can a nonfiction book’s premise be so engaging you’ll ignore serious flaws? Can a novel be so compelling you’ll push on through the writing errors to find out what happened?
Agreed, Janet! I recently read a book that blew me away. By that, I mean it soared straight to the top of my best-thing-I’ve-ever-read list. It was one of those books that completely ruined me for the next thing in my TBR pile. Ruined me for writing for about 24 hours–it was that breathtaking. So, I went online and got another of that author’s books. It’s good. Very good. But the premise is giving me a little trouble. I’m having a hard time suspending disbelief to allow for the plot line. I can also see how she used research from the other book (or perhaps she wrote this one first, I didn’t check), so I’m constantly reminded of the brilliance of the other novel.
I will finish this one. However, this author has a long way to go to get me to read the next.
So “engaging” wasn’t good enough, right? In light of the brilliance you knew the author could deliver, I’m hearing you say that engaging felt sort of flat.
It made me giggle to imagine you yelling at an inanimate object before throwing it across the room, but I have to admit I’ve thought about doing the same thing before.
When I was younger I could grit my teeth and muddle through a less than stellar novel. No more.
What I appreciate is being introduced to something new in a novel that piques my curiosity. I’m willing to set the book down and do a little research on that topic, and learn something new in the process. This recently happened with one of Jody Hedlund’s books. I didn’t set it aside for long though because the story was quite compelling.
I discovered the satisfaction of book tossing many years ago when the ending of Cold Mountain made me so mad that I not only tossed the novel across the room but I also stayed mad. I’m still kinda mad.
I think the more mature a reader, the less willing to accept okay rather than great. As we develop a sense of what makes a really great novel, we’re always on the hunt for the next one. And can’t keep quiet about it once we find it.
Me, too! Really mad. I stopped watching the movie after they reunited. The end.
Book tossing – one reason not to go with ebooks. 🙂
Can a novel be so compelling I push through writing flaws to finish or nonfiction so engaging I overlook lots of mistakes?
Absolutely.
But it has to be AWESOME. A plot so compelling I dream about it when the light is finally switched off. Characters so real I talk to them in my head once the book is over. Questions and themes so big and juicy I rant about them to friends, family, and the stranger sitting next to me on the bus.
In short – it has to be the next one-in-a-million story.
And it usually isn’t.
Why authors put themselves at such a disadvantage by not doing the hard work of editing and being edited I don’t understand. Do you care about your project or not?
I’m beginning to realize that part of the problem with delivering that flawless work is the lack of editing. Publishers are actually foregoing copy editing for some authors in favor of a quicker release and less production cost.
I personally think that’s penny wise, pound foolish. But then, I’d never make it as a publisher so what do I know? Except that I’m a reader, and I care.
Janet, is the practice of foregoing a copy edit selective to individual contracts? It seems I’ve noticed that from a certain large publishing house that has a great reputation for quality. But in this one debut author’s case it seemed like a “grade B” release. The cover not as shiny, the paper stock not as high quality, and the editing not as good. While other debut authors from the same house seem more like “grade A” releases.
I’ve started books and not finished for the reasons you mention. For one, I’m too busy to waste time filling my head with something I don’t want to emulate in my own writing. So call me a “book snob” I guess. LOL, I loved your term. But, I can overlook some minor errors if the majority of the writing is good. That said, big medical or historical errors go on the “might not be forgivable” list for me–again, snob. 🙁
I so totally agree with you in that, Janet. I also noticed that the more books I had published, the more timid editors became – and I had some absolutely super editors. I think we writers need to stand united in THANKING our editors, not whining about the changes they request!
I freely and publicly admit to being a total snob when it comes to writing. I cannot stand it, CAN NOT stand it when I see research flaws in a novel. Or a premise so utterly ridiculous that I cannot suspend my disbelief and keep reading. It makes me quite angry, actually, being one who is working my tail off to do what is expected and then more and I see publishers toss good money after bad.
A runner doesn’t eat chips and drink Pepsi before a marathon. Why should a writer do that and then turf the mess on the readers who pay for the book??
Write for the King and don’t present your work until it is worthy of royalty.
Research errors (or lack of research) do seem pretty egregious to me, too.
Amen! I’m a publisher with high standards, and quite often I’m just bewildered at what people send to us, either edited by friends and those who know the author, or paid so little, that the money spent was wasted.
We believe all work doing is worth doing right, especially when it’s intended to represent the Kingdom of God!
I read a book a year ago that I loved as I was reading it. I had planned to reread it, just to study “how” it was written and see what things I could pick up to help my own writing.
However, at the end and read the author provied some supplemental information which stated that, although she had done the research, she had modified the facts when it helped the story.
The main character suffered from a certain type of medical codition. I would have preferred that the author use a made-up condition that suited her needs rather than take an existing (but rare) condition and throw in all these symptoms that are simply not related to this condition.
Also, there were some court room scenes that didn’t seem to reflect how the law really works. I was willing to overlook that because of how fascinating the rest of the book was. But when I read how the author ignored the aspects of the legal system that didn’t fit in with where she wanted the story to go, I was truely annoyed.
I had planned to research the medical condition (it sounded so intriguing), so I would have caught that mistake–and been duly dissappointed. So the author did not “shoot herself in the foot” by providing that information. However, I would have preferred she provide that information up front, so I didn’t get as fascinated with this rare and bizzare condition as I did.
Although I had originally planned to buy and read more of this author’s work, I now intend never to read any more of her books, even if they are free.
I hope that doesn’t sound too harsh. But I was too disappointed the first time around. And I have limited time to get through my ever-growing to-be-read pile. I’ll save my reading time and dollars for authors who provide a stories that are both honest and engaging.
Wow, that’s pretty handy to ignore both the medical conditions symptoms and how the legal system works. That made it a work of fiction on more levels than we would prefer.
I was talking to a friend the other day who read a novel based on the life of a well-known person. The author changed a major fact in the person’s life that most of us would realize was switched. Way too convenient for the writing of the story for my taste!
Maybe this is my OCD talking, but I expect flawless. That said, if the book is by an author I love – I push through. A few errors are not going to pull me out of the story, but if it persists, I am less likely to pick up the author’s next book.
I expect flawless as well. My thought is if a big publishing company is going to spend the money to print the book, why not get the editing done before you shame yourself???
My brother has OCD. But he calls it “CDO”, because that’s the proper alphabetical order.
🙂
I do set aside books more frequently now than I used to. I also find myself skimming and skipping over parts that do not keep my attention. I do find I love one book by an author, then others not so much.
I also sympathize with these writers. It’s harder now than ever to keep people’s attention, in this age of immediacy.
This is a great reminder as a writer, to edit, edit, edit and make sure my work is the very best I can give.
I don’t expect perfection from any writer–just pretty exceptional work. That’s all. 🙂
It’s great to read all these comments and your post, Janet. I’m in the exact middle of my final edit on my novel (my 8th edit!) and it’s a tedious one. 🙂 (I’ve already had seven other people edit it too.)
I’m tired. I want perfection, but it’s tough to trudge through editing again when I want to be writing/creating more stories. This type of discussion encourages me because I don’t want to just keep writing stories, but I want to publish them. Thanks!
Morgan, all this trudging will pay off when you have a finished manuscript you know you did your very best on. No reader can ask more than the best.
It’s like rejecting a massive, gooey brownie because the flavor isn’t there; it’s just not worth the calories. I’ll wait for something better.
I love this analogy! 🙂
Bill, I wish I had your willpower. I go into a brownie-blindness at the sight of chocolate goo.
And now I’m craving chocolate…
I shout corrections at the TV all the time. Seems like using “that” when you mean “who” has gotten all too common. I’m much less tolerant of errors and flaws than I used to be. If I’m going to push through something, it will only be because I think I can learn something really valueable from it.
My husband and I were both syntactical tacticians when watching TV. “That” and “who” were on our list as was using “unique” with a modifier. Among many others. I’m sure no one would want to watch TV with us–unless that person was up for grammar lessons.
LOL! My husband kicks me out of the room when he watches CSI. I can’t stand the blatant science errors. You don’t get DNA analysis from a centrifuge! Oh, the rant can go on and on.
I think that the engaging storyline can only carry you so far. You may finish the book, but will you ever read it again? Or pick up something by the same author? I recently read a book with a very interesting plot but the writing and character development was a disappointment in every area. I finished the book but will not be reading its sequel.
I’ve done that too.
If we’re reading and commenting on this blog, aren’t we all, to some extent, book snobs? I’ll confess I am. I haven’t thrown a book across the room, but my husband certainly knows when something I’m reading has problems. A compelling story can keep me going, but too many errors will dampen the enjoyment and leave a bad taste in my mouth. It seems that publishers are shooting themselves in the foot if they eliminate edits. Wouldn’t producing books of lesser quality result in fewer sales and less profit, not just for that book but for future books?
Meghan, apparently publishers don’t think enough book snobs exist to matter when it comes to sales. Well, we’re all here to say we care, and we don’t buy from sloppy authors more than once, right?
I’m trying to find the good here, Janet, and remain optimistic. How about this? We book snobs may not buy a second book, but most readers would. So, book sales are still up? All I can do is my absolute best — bathed in prayer.
I wonder if it goes beyond that. I recently read a book with so many errors that I’m hesitant to buy anything from that publisher again. I did finish the book, but the errors kept stopping the flow of the story.
This is a great discussion. It seems to me that publishers may not necessarily care about an individual writer unless she proves to be their “jackpot” author. They may not care if we read the author’s second book because there is always another writer waiting for you to buy their book. It’s all about finding the blockbuster.
I’d like to extend a little empathy to writers about the errors. I do believe we should be able to put a cohesive sentence together, but we all know what it’s like to write and send an important letter or email only to discover a literal second later the existence of a glaring, mind-numbing typo just laughing at you. (Like, what are you going to do about it, sucka?) Let’s keep this in mind when we read books with a typo or two. The writer read her story dozens of time. She had friends, family, agent, and editor all read her manuscript and still the typos passed through and made it into the final printing. I know it is ultimately her responsibility, but still, are you truly confident that your manuscript will be error free. You know what I mean?
Great post, Janet. I think I’m more of a book snob than I used to be. Minor errors catch my eye, but if the story is engaging enough, I can overlook them. When more serious errors catch my eye, it is frustrating to keep reading. They definitely affect my opinion of the author and future books I may or may not read by him/her.
On the flip side of that, it is such a good reminder that if/when my book is published, there will be readers like me. I want to make sure I present the best possible product to a publishing house and eventually to readers.
Is this conversation making all of us pull out our grammar and style books? I’m beginning to worry I’ll commit an error(s) in my comments!
If it brings you comfort, Janet, one of the big errors I found (that really bugged me) was written by a well-known author. She spelled the name of a well-known town in my state incorrectly. Apparently, her editors missed it too. My suspicion was that there is a town by the same name in her state, but spelled differently. Comments are different than the actual post, right? 🙂
Sometimes…sometimes…a book will keep me engaged despite poor editing. But since I’m an editor myself, I get distracted easily by mistakes.
Distraction really is the issue, isn’t it, Lindsay? Thanks for expressing it in such a concise way.
We all have lines we can’t cross. That doesn’t make us snobs.
I will forgive many mistakes for a story I love, but if the mistakes are too many, too soon, I won’t read long enough to fall in love in the first place.
On the one hand an “engaging story” is all that’s needed. But many mistakes make us “disengage” from the story.
And for sure, a well-thought-out premise and engaging characters are not optional. I can take some technical errors, but if you give me flat characters why would their story engage me?
Sally, that’s a good point about how we can become engaged because of the book’s strong points but disengaged as we encounter flaws during the reading process.
Janet:
Your reading habits, preferences, and experiences are anecdotal, not statistical. From my experience talking with readers, and from my own reading, I agree with the editor: quality of story-telling trumps quality of writing for the vast majority of readers. That’s for fiction. For non-fiction, I believe clarity of the presentation (i.e. arrangement of the material and communication of the premises and conclusions) trumps quality of writing.
A great story covers over a multitude of writing sins.
David, I agree that quality of story is supremely important, but when writing issues distract from the story to the degree that you step out of the “dream” of the story, then the other issues have gained the upper hand.
I think each reader has some degree of tolerance for “flaws” in a book, be they typos or grammar or head-hopping or plot holes or character development. Each reader will be different. I have high tolerance for typos and grammar. Head-hopping is mostly invisible to me. But plot holes irk me to no end, and pretty much ruin a book for me. But that tolerance is at least in part determined by the quality of the story telling. Bad story, low tolerence to flaws. Outstanding story, higher tolerance to flaws.
I’m not a detail person, but I know without a doubt that even my best friends would put down my book if there were grammatical errors. I think all the pieces have to be there. If you don’t have a compelling story, there’s not enough time in a day to waste reading. If the story is good, but there are errors in grammar or character development, it’s distracting. The reader should not have to be editing. They should be enjoying the book. I think it’s a huge mistake to push something out quickly without being sure you’ve caught everything. It’s a book! It’s not a brownie.
Love the line: It’s a book, not a brownie. But just as Bill Giovannetti said, I’m picky about what sort of brownie I eat because of the calories. I’m also picky about the books I read because of limited time.
Sometimes, no.
I was completely in love with one author’s world-building and science fiction, but his team of lead female protagonists killed it for me. Their junior high body image issues and one-upmanship destroyed any credibility this crack team of super athletes and uber-spies were purported to have.
I still wonder if Hitler ever did manage to transport people through space, but I won’t pick up that book again to find out.
So for you the *idea* was engaging but the execution…not so much.
Call me a book snob, but I decided not to read the Hunger Games when I realized the author didn’t know how to use who and whom correctly.
Isn’t it amazing what a little help from an editor could do for readers’ experiences?
I can never, ever, ever set aside those little imperfections for content (sorry, channeled some Taylor Swift, it’s gone now). If you mess up on grammar, tense, dialogue… you’re dead to me.
I have no book.
I immediately assume you’re wasting my time.
Some books were written to be thrown (I just try not to do it in front of the kids).
Stephanie, hm, good thought about throwing books only when children aren’t around. Welcome to the Book Snob Club.
I’ve never thrown a children’s book, so that means I’m okay, right? (Although there was one Max & Ruby that was missing a crucial scene; the continuity was totally disrupted. I pointed it out to my husband and he just shook his head and told me I was being hyper-critical. C’mon, hyper? Srsly?)
I personally cannot stand a poorly written book, fiction or nonfiction.
However, I can think of a number of fairly recent novels with less-than-stellar writing that hit best-seller status and were “optioned” by film producers (some of which have already made it to the big screen). It’s clear that many readers will forgive sloppy writing if the story captures them.
And it’s even more clear to me that most publishers would rather produce a single wildly popular book than a dozen well-written ones that have only modest sales.
So I don’t worry about the reading public or the publishing houses. I write what I want to read, and I strive to write it well.
Obviously publishers aren’t as worried as we are about the “details” of a book, and certainly film folks aren’t. Sometimes they option a book to use the characters’ names!
I guess I am a literary snob as well. When reading a novel, I expect to be entertained and engaged. When the author doesn’t meet my expectations I rarely read any more of their work. Yet is has to be extremely poor quality for me not to follow through and see how it ends.
Ooh, your curiosity about the ending wins over your concerns about the writing. I’m more forgiving about plot and character development with a TV show than I am with a book.
I look for the ability to use English correctly as well as good story telling. It’s a rare story that can involve me so deeply that I’m not distracted by poor English skills.
I’m with you, Beth.
I try to finish reading every book I start, but errors pull me out of the story and if I must force myself to keep reading I’ll certainly never look at anything else by the same author. It frustrates me that some people who have written lots of best-sellers can churn out books with poorer and poorer quality and still get published. I guess a lot of people aren’t bothered by the things we writers notice.
That’s why we’re bona fide Book Snobs, Janet.
The last time I threw a book was in my third semester of calculus. Talk about something that didn’t make any sense! Well, at least not at the time.
It frustrates/concerns me how many publishers put out books with errors in them, including the big six. I know authors who sent back the mark-up copy with corrections, only to have them ignored. If/when I ever get published, I’m pretty sure that attitude would have me throwing the contract!
That leads me to a question, Janet. If my editor/publisher publishes a book with errors that I’ve caught and corrected, what would my recourse be? I don’t want my book thrown against a wall. 😉
Ann, prepare yourself. Most authors open their brand new book to a page just to enjoy and–behold!–their eyes land on a mistake. It’s a Murphy’s Law thing.
The author at that point starts a list of errors to be corrected in the next printing and send the list of his/her editor. If there is no second printing, the errors remain never corrected. Sadly.
It’s always jarring when a lack of research shows up in TV and movies, too, especially when the studios have large budgets and teams of researchers at their disposal–a lot more than a typical publishing house, I imagine. An episode of a favorite series of mine (*cough*24*cough) referred to a plane going down in the “mountains of Iowa.” Mountains? Iowa? Really? A different movie showed the characters driving south on Chicago’s Lake Shore Drive, only to end up in Wisconsin. A simple glance at a map would have cleared that right up.
This list of errors made me chuckle, Jenny.
Thank you for this post, Janet. I laughed when you wrote about yelling grammar corrections at the television. I do the same thing, especially when I hear my three pet peeves: “She gave lovely flowers to Cathy and I,” “Everyone needs to get their tickets ready,” and “Sandy and myself just loved the show!” Does that make me a member of the Grammar Police? Possibly. It’s an occupational hazard; I’m an English teacher. Since I spend so much of my time editing and correcting, it’s difficult for me to ignore typos and grammatical errors in books. Generally, I can forgive a typo here or there and a MINOR grammar error, but I have no patience with manuscripts that are riddled with them. I find awkward sentence structure and incorrect word usage more difficult to forgive. These interrupt the flow of the writing. This is especially true with fiction. If I have become engaged with a story and have been transported to that world, I don’t appreciate it when an poorly written sentence smacks me in the face with a reminder that I’m reading a book. Finally (in case I haven’t ranted enough) I agree that inaccuracies ruin a writer’s credibility. As a writer, being accurate is important to me, even in regards to details that readers might not even notice. I’m writing a fantasy so doing research may not seem necessary, yet I am doing a great deal of it. For example, in one scene, two characters who are sisters and faeries sit down to have tea. One is a healer who works with herbs. Knowing that her sister is upset, the healer offers her lavender tea. Readers may neither know nor care that lavender is good both for treating upset stomachs and for calming nerves, but I know that the detail is accurate and it’s important to me that I give readers my best. Like you, I don’t expect perfection, but I do feel that writers, editors and publishers should care about turning out a high quality product.
Christine, I’m so with you on those common grammatical errors we hear over and over on TV. I guess I need to join the Grammar Police along with the Book Snob Club (which I believe I am forming on this very blog).
Thanks for researching the soothing effects of lavender tea. Some readers out there would know you are correct.
When I encounter errors in the books I read, I keep reading, but with a bit less enthusiasm.
Interestingly, if it’s from a traditional publisher, I fault the publisher, not the author. However, if it’s self-published, there’s no one to blame but the author.
I agree with you that certainly the traditional publisher has failed the author if the errors should have been obvious ones (or ones an editor should have asked). Sometimes it takes special knowledge of a topic to know if a more nuanced mistake has been made.
I’m with you, Janet. Poor grammar, typographical errors and inconsistences drive me insane. Out of all three, the last one bugs me the most. I cannot stand inconsistences. That said, I know in my own writing I’ve actually switched the gender of a horse from one chapter to the next, which is why I first depend upon my critique group, then I self-edit, and then I have an editor review my work.
Quick, silly story. I went to school the other day to review the materials they were using for an upcoming Human Growth and Development course. The co-ed video had four friends (two boys, two girls). One boy was named Sam in the beginning when the kids were toddlers, but by the time he was a teenager his name had changed to Russ. The teacher and I had a good laugh over it, though she had never noticed it before.
This past summer I started & tossed three novels before finding one I wanted to stick with til the end. Though I can handle some errors & a few author bugaboos or odd quirks, big, consistent problems like what you mentioned, Janet, drive me up a wall.
For instance, I used to enjoy books by Mary Higgins Clark but no more. I’ll admit I never thought she was a great writer. Still, her stories were compelling enough.
Now, I don’t know if her writing has gotten lazy — or that of her ghostwriter/s — or I’m a more critical reader. I might read one if she writes in first person. Otherwise, the constant head-hopping makes me feel like a ping-pong ball.
It seems to be that way with many of my favorite authors. The more they write, the less I like their work. Is it laziness? An “I-have-an-audience-so-why-should-I-try-so-hard” mentality? I don’t know, but it’s frustrating.
I feel the same way, Janet. In fact, at one time I had no idea some wrote without making sure the finer points were accurate. To me, this is the foundation for writing, and it must be right before the story (and author) can be taken seriously.
If you want to see an example of poor technical writing, look no further than J.K. Rowling.
Never tossed a book for grammatical errors. Personally, I don’t read to have an English lesson, but others’ mileage may vary. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever read an author that uses proper grammar all the time, and I don’t just mean in dialogue. Writing is a lot like music. Timing and rhythm have a huge part to play, and sometimes that rhythm gets off-beat by being prim and proper. Rhythm is the pulse of music, and likewise, writing.
Yep, you guys are reading snobs. But that’s ok, my best friend is a grammar snob and I love her very much. I notice many of the errors and they make me laugh sometimes, but if the story can sweep me away it doesn’t matter. I love a wonderful story whether grammatically perfect or flawed. Let me fall in love with a character and travel to distant lands…but don’t screw up the research. That is a must for me. So I guess I’m a facts snob. But there are people who love me anyway. Wow, I just spell checked this comment over in Word (because I am a little afraid of all of you) and I spelled grammar wrong…