Blogger: Wendy Lawton
Part 1 of 2: Going At It Backwards
We’re always pointing out interesting trends observed here at Books & Such. Recently, I’ve had a significant uptick in self-published authors—both in print and e-only—contact me, seeking representation for a self-published book. A number of authors find my office address and actually send me a print copy of the book. A couple of weeks ago I took an entire basket of those kinds of over-the-transom submissions and returned all the books to the sender. Since very few included the old-fashion SASE, it became a very labor-intensive, costly exercise.
I know. I know. Our guidelines say that unsolicited mail submissions will go into the round file but I’m still working toward overcoming my fear of writing in books. Can you imagine me tossing them in a recycle bin? (You can thank Mrs. Broga, my fifth grade teacher, for that.)
As I packed up book after book to return, I longed to explain to these writers that they are going at this backwards. I’ll tell you instead.
First of all, let me clear up a misunderstanding: Some writers contact an agent with a self-published project and ask if we can help them “market” it. That request grows out of confusion as to what we do. We may help our clients navigate different marketing options. We may even help brainstorm marketing initiatives for our clients but, when an author comes to us, he should be seeking literary representation, not book marketing. If a self-pubbed author wants help getting the word out about his book, he needs to look for a book marketing firm.
Here’s the problem with the authors seriously seeking literary representation: If you are coming to me to represent a book that is already published I can only assume the DIY (do-it-yourself) process was a failure. If it’s going gangbusters why would you want to leave self-publishing? Why would you want to pay me a percentage of your royalties? Even if I loved a self-published book, the first question I’m going to ask is, how many copies sold. And I’m going to need to see documentation of that. Remember, when we are considering taking on a new client we are not only assessing the work but we are analyzing which publishers will be interested. If you are selling like the almost-mythic Amanda Hocking or The Shack, then a publisher will jump at the chance to re-publish the book. If you sold three or four thousand e-books in the first year at $3.99 per book, then not so much.
Some of the other things that work against you if you self-pub and then seek an agent and traditional publisher:
- You’ve demonstrated the vigor of your own platform. It’s now quantifiable. That can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on how vigorously the book sold.
- Building a significant literary career takes perseverance. Some agents and publishers view the self-pubbed author as one who lacks the patience to build slowly and strategically.
- When you make a choice to go it alone, some professionals could see it as a maverick attitude. Does it denigrate what a whole team brings to the process?
All that said, there are some books meant to be self-published. Books that will appeal to the authors own well-known niche. Books written by speakers and marketed to their audiences. Books created for an event or a company.
I’m just saying. . . self-pubbing or self-ePubbing your book may not be putting your best foot forward if your goal is to build a traditional literary career.
So what do you think? Am I just cranky from having to mail out dozens of unsolicited books? Am I missing the positive aspects of dabbling in the self-pub waters before diving into the traditional waters? Some of you may argue that the whole future is changing and you may be right, but we’re talking about terra firma right now, not what’s predicted out in the ether, right?
You’re the nicest cranky person I know, as I don’t know anyone else who would’ve sent those books back.
I agree with you. And that’s why my Author Memories blog guidelines state that I won’t promote self-pubbed work. I could say more, but then I’d be the cranky one. 😉
I have nothing against self-pubbed books. In fact, I’ve worked with several clients to self-pub a book that had a specific audience. The point I was making is that if a writers goal is to build a traditional literary career, self-pubbing is not an automatic good first step.
Thank you for believing the best of me. 🙂
I guess I did sound kind of snotty. Sorry. I apologize to anyone who took offense with my comment.
I don’t have anything against self-publishing either. I have author friends who are successfully self-published. I also have friends who are struggling at self-pubbed after making no headway the traditional way. I do have a problem with people who try to buck the system, but that could be the soldier in me coming out.
However for my blog, I’ve chosen to NOT put myself in the position of deciding if a self-published author has published that way because of quality, necessity, or choice. I admit I’ve taken the easy way out by not allowing any self-published work to be promoted on my blog, but at this time, there are too many variables and I don’t feel I’m in a position to decide which self-published works should be promoted and which shouldn’t be.
I am now going to paint a white stripe down my back and go to the garden to eat worms.
I have heard of at least one self-published author who worked with an editor and others so it may be a team effort – just not in a team with a publisher or agent. In that case you’re not too much of a maverick or a control freak (maybe).
I think the self-published author that would make the leap is probably a bit rare unless the book is already successful and they are looking for a broader audience.
In that case the agent would be helpful in selecting an appropriate publisher and navigating the legalwork required.
Otherwise, if your book isn’t already “viral” that won’t change just because you got published, unless the editing/publishing process really drastically improves your book (which is possible, I guess … but why would a publisher take the risk?)
Maybe if you self-published one book you could go traditional for another book.
That said, no matter what route you take, failing to follow the submission guidelines of any publisher or agent is getting things off on the wrong foot and a sign that someone might be a bit too clueless to bother working with.
You said, “Maybe if you self-published one book you could go traditional for another book.”
Absolutely. But keep in mind, unless you had phenomenal success with the self-publishing, it will not be a positive factor in securing an agent and a traditional publisher. At best it will be neutral.
Phenomenal success is another matter. . .
Thanks for your insight.
Have you thought about donating all those books to a church library (I’m guessing most of them are Christian)? I can’t throw books away, either.
I’ve long thought that whatever an author does “first” sets the tone for his or her future. I’m thinking a poorly handled self-pubbed book can be very hard to overcome.
I do end up donating a lot of books but not those sent in the submission process. Especially since some are just plain wacky.
Interesting thought– setting the tone for your career. That would make a great subject to explore.
Setting the tone is huge, I believe! Yes, we all start somewhere and grow from there. But working on the craft, then working some more, then applying more work may slow down our launch into the publishing industry. But we want to push away from shore in a seaworthy…um…craft.
I consider myself a typical aspiring author. I started off with big dreams, measly craft skills, and an extremely minimal knowledge of the publishing industry. Just as a doctor can’t cram all of her training in six months and come out a master of surgery, authors can’t cram writing a book, learning how to market themselves, and getting published into a short, short amount of time either.
Self-published authors who are ready to be published–those will excellent craft skills, a good handle on how to market their books, and a smart view of the publishing industry–probably wouldn’t want an agent. They’re more likely at a level where they can sell well on their own.
If not, and they still want to try the traditional approach, I would think they would query a new book, not one they’ve already published on their own.
People complain about the gatekeepers in publishing but there’s a benefit as well. Once you walk through that gate you know you’ve honed your craft and a whole cadre of experts agree that you have a salable book.
About mastery. . . I love what Malcolm Gladwell talks about in The Outliers and the 10,000 hours needed to gain master status. Too often we see ourselves exempt. To our detriment.
I agree. And I’m a big fan of Malcolm Gladwell’s books too!
I wanted to get my work ‘off my desk’ ‘out of my head’ and published after a lot of hard work. I think the long, hard-grind of submissions and rejections would have ruined the whole thing; unless everything I’ve read about the process has been completely wrong. I just didn’t want to go there. E-publishing gave me that sense of completion, closure if you like, so I could move onto the next book.
I have been a writer for my entire career, but in a commercial setting. Despite that, having a book published was incredibly exciting, even for an old hack. I feel like a bird in flight with my two fledglings ‘out there’ and my next book steadily developing into an even better offering. Even old dogs can learn new tricks. But, had the first two been languishing on some slush pile, I think I would have become disheartened.
I may come into land around four books hence (with a bump, maybe) and review my approach, but for now I am happy with e-pub books and the steady sales that my modest marketing efforts bring.
That is just it. Many writers work hard; very hard. But they can get frustrated. I imagine a lot of self published works are a result of frustration. It cost money to self publish. The writer dishes it out, taking the risk on themselves and that is a sign of commitment. But I understand the traditional publishers need to assure that higher risk projects not be on their shoulders.
I guess the question is, are readers finding your books? If we are writing to express ourselves it is a moot point but if we are reader-focused then the numbers will tell you whether this business model is successful or not.
It does sound like you are having fun and that’s nothing to dismiss lightly.
Hi Wendy
Yes, they are finding my books.
I have only just published them, Feb to be precise, so really early days.
Thanks
Alice
No, not cranky. If you open the books in a way that doesn’t destroy the packaging, you could look at them, reseal them, then write “Refused” on them and take them to the PO, and they will return to sender. Or, if you’re afraid the PO won’t really do that, donate them to a thrift store or used book store.
The gurus of self-publishing keep saying that the “stigma” once attached to self-publishing is fading, but if it is, it seems to be hitting the literary agents later than the population at large. I made the decision to self-publish my non-fiction works and short pieces once I realized that acceptance of my work by a mainstream publisher had almost nothing to do with quality. It had to do with multiple sequential gatekeepers, with bad track records, judging how well the book will sell. I could work for a decade or more on my art and craft (as I have) and not be any closer to having a book accepted than I was when I started back in 2000. It’s a matter of market timing, not writing craft. If that decision is evidence that I lack perseverence or have a maverick attitude, I plead guilty. But those 50 units sold so far are much better than none.
I don’t necessarily see a stigma to self-publishing. I’m just saying that if your goal is traditional publishing, it’s a risky first step.
I know a number of successful, multi-book authors who are strategically choosing self-publishing. The jury’s still out on it, but it’s an interesting business model for sure.
I mostly agree with what you have said, but there are exceptions to every rule. I self-published a book about Appalachian poverty and a remarkable woman who dared to help because I thought it was too regional to approach an agent or publisher. Also, my goals were to increase awareness of the poverty and to have an historical record of this woman’s accomplishments. However, after publishing last November, the national response has been so good that I’m now doubting my decision. Going through a traditional publisher would put the books in stores across the nation and help both of my reasons for writing the book. It was never about money. So, I’m considering how to next proceed.
And that’s exactly the point I was making. If sales are showing that you’ve hit a nerve, you may want to either put money and time into building a marketing team or explore going the traditional route.
It might be a sign you’ve connected into contemporary Zeitgeist with your timing and your topic. The television show, Justified, about Harlan County (whether representative or not) is a huge hit, making people interested in Appalachian culture. It bears watching.
Thanks for your reply, but one thing about publishers and agents regarding self-published books, or unpublished for that matter, is confusing. I would think that both agents and publishers would be almost solely interested in the quality of the writing and story, regardless of its past, or sales history. There could be any number of reasons why a book was unsuccessful that had nothing to do with either writing or story. Do publishers not look at possibilities? It seems to me that story and strong writing should trump most anything.
Content is content; it’s either good or bad. So, why does it matter that an author attempted self-publishing, other than the fact that it may go against your own sense of self-importance as a “traditional” agent? I don’t think it matters where an author (or a book) has been. What matters is the work product that is in front of you and whether you think it will sell in the future.
I think it’s funny that a publisher takes a monetary risk in publishing a book and then leaves it to the author and his platform to market it. A publisher should be able to recognize a good work and say “We can sell this even though the author could not.”
Robert, that’s another generalization that it overstated and most often downright untrue. I have a number of publisher marketing plans sitting on my desk right now. For the most part, the publishers we work with do a wonderful job of marketing. Next month I’m traveling to a publisher and will meet with three of my authors to participate in marketing summits. Yes there is a budget for marketing each book and it is finite but no publisher “leaves it to the author to market it.”
Now when it comes to social networking that is the author’s responsibility because a publisher participating in social media is just another advertiser. The author is the one who needs to build his tribe.
Garrett, what you say is true if all we are talking about is the work itself. When I talk about publishing, I’m talking about a business as well as an art. If a chef only cared about creating a decadent dish but had no diners to enjoy his creation, the food would rot at the pass and though he’d have the satisfaction of creation, he wouldn’t have a business or any means to continue creating.
As for the ad hominem argument that is often aimed at publishing professionals when we discuss self-publishing– you said, “it may go against your own sense of self-importance as a “traditional” agent?” I refuse to accept that as an argument.
Any of our clients can tell you we are far from “traditional” agents. (See Janet Grant’s blog from Monday of this week.) Am I speaking out of worry about losing my place in this process? Not for a moment. My client list includes some of the best names in our industry and I add value to each of their careers. Even if my clients no longer needed me to sell their work to traditional publishers I doubt that they’d give up the other things I do– advocate, coach, brainstormer, financial management, etc. I work hard to be an avid supporter, team member and servant to my clients. If self-importance creeps in, I have enough friends and colleagues holding me accountable that I won’t get away with it for long.
I’m just saying. . .
Amen! Publishing is a team effort, and so is staying published. I find it interesting that people on either side of the argument against self-publishing bring up the agent/marketing aspect. Yes, it’s true that a self-published book can be done without an agent, as can a traditionally published book. True also, the trend now seems to be that e-books are receiving as much publicity in some circles as their printed counterparts. An agent, at least for me, makes the entire process-be it print or e-book-so much simpler. Because I have an agent (full disclosure: Wendy is my agent), I spend much more of my day writing.
While I am traditionally published, I’m also thrilled about the opportunity authors now have to bring out-of-print or never-published books into circulation in addition to augment their lists. It’s an exciting new world in publishing, and I’m very happy to have a forward-thinking agency behind me.
You make some very valid points. If my book is doing well and I have more in the hopper to sell to traditional publishers that have never seen publication, than I have numbers to back up 1)my platform 2) my potential market risk as an author and 3) my desirablility to an agent/editor and expending my overall career in publishing.
Exactly. That’s when your self-publishing foray is a good thing. Because of your success, you have taken away much of the risk.
I got fouled up by an unscrupulous agent who engaged in unethical practices (including disregarding our contract’s terms – such as expiration). After a couple years of heartache and expense, as well as involvement with the United States Postal Service, I decided to self-publish in what I thought was the emerging field of e-books. That was in 1998. The books (there were two) were not pushed by the press that published them. They did charge a fee. They languished with only a few sales. I finally put them on Kindle this past summer. Sales are growing but not stellar chiefly because I haven’t been advertising. I was considering pulling them and reviewing them and then perhaps submitting them again. I hear the people shouting about self-publishing and I hear others shouting about how self-pub will never get into trad pub. Who to believe?
Neither. The average sales numbers for eBooks you hear include the gigantic numbers of the phenomenal success stories which could spike the numbers to a point where they don’t make any sense.
It’s not true that if you self-pub you’ll never get into traditional publishing. As I said today, it is only a plus if you are a runaway success. Otherwise it is neutral. Remember, you don’t even have to talk about your self-pub experiments unless (like those who sent me their self-pubbed books) you are trying to sell rights to a book that has already been e-pubbed or self-pubbed.
I have to admit I’ve considered self-publishing more than once. I still haven’t discounted it entirely, but what you posted in this article is why I haven’t committed to it yet. I know how serious I am about a career in writing. I don’t want my desire to see my work published to interfere with my ability to secure representation.
I’m glad it works for some people. I’m not saying they’re wrong in doing it. I’m just not convinced it’s the right move for me.
If you already know you have a good audience, people that you are sure will know about you and your book, it may be worth it. It could be a blog that is getting tons of hits or a large group of people in a network related to the topic. If you address 100,000 people you may be able to sell the 500 books necessary to pay for the self publishing process. This works great with non-fiction for people who speak to large crowds on the subject or bloggers who have a large following. You will pay a lot up front to self publish and if you know you can make that money back, there is really no risk. If you don’t know than you take a risk. Ironically, the measure of risk is the same a traditional publisher will look at, but probably on a larger scale. They will feel like they need to sell 5,000 where you will feel you need to sell 500.
Nathan hit the nail on the head. He’s thinking like a businessman.
Wendy Lawton: “If you are coming to me to represent a book that is already published I can only assume the DIY (do-it-yourself) process was a failure. If it’s going gangbusters why would you want to leave self-publishing? Why would you want to pay me a percentage of your royalties?”
This. Most definitely this.
I think there are some self-publishers who see people like John Locke and Amanda Hocking make deals with publishers to increase their reach, because, obviously, big box stores don’t carry self-published books (with good reason). Doesn’t make it right to send you their already published books, though.
I think your points were well taken and your comments very helpful.I want to ask about one:”one who lacks the patience to build slowly and strategically.”
From talking to authors, I estimate about seven years is the average time to acquire an agent and/or sell a book. If I were 21 that would be fine. Unfortunately, I started writing late in life. I’m 66 and I really don’t have that kind of time.
At 55, that is always in the back of my mind, as well. When my first novel is polished, I will give it a year to find representation. By that time, book two will be finished and mostly polished. Then I will go it alone. Live every day like it’s your last!
43 years old seems late.
66 sounds younger and younger to me. Just keep writing. Once you break into publishing you’ll have the “inventory” to move quickly.
My favorite book, And Ladies of the Club, was published when the author was 88. But I understand your angst. The solution depends on our goals. If we want to write books to change the world or to tell stories that reach masses of readers, self-publishing means we will have to commit to become marketers more than writers. And that may be valid.
My mother was a writer but she only self-published her books for her family. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t go out to millions. We treasure them.
Don’t forget, our work will last far longer than we do. Look at The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo– Stieg Larrson’s work is only gaining huge audiences posthumously.
Wendy Lawton, you have read my mind!! Thanks so much for posting this because it really hit home with me.
I took the self-pub route for my children’s books and soon realized after doing so, that it probably wasn’t the best path to take. I was naive, eager to get my books out there. Since my works were written specifically for and illustrated with my own children in mind, initially, lower sales didn’t bother me that much. Fast forward two years, and I would definitely do it all differently. Am I proud of my pieces and do I love reading my kiddos their books about them? Absolutely. However, I do have the desire to have others appreciate and identify with them as well, and because I am not traditionally published, my audience is small at best. There’s a reason why breaking into the industry of publication is tough. As authors we definitely need to hone our craft, work on our skills, research the industry, and overall, do our homework.
Thanks again for the great post! 🙂
Isn’t that like saying a person who tries to start their own company and fails is a poor risk as a future hire? Or even as a future entrepreneur? In fact, entrepreneurs who tried and failed are considered a better risk for business investors when they come up with their next business idea, because they’ve learned a thing of two.
Granted, I have downloaded a few ‘free’ books on Kindle that have been dreadful. But I’ve also read books from traditional publishers that have been pretty awful too.
Why are we stigmatizing authors who are learning their lessons the hardest way possible? Sure, they may be publishing too soon, but if there’s potential there, and they learn from their mistakes, perhaps they can become a good risk. Writing is one of the few careers where you can come up with a pen name and start over.
Nobody is judging the billion software developers out there trying to create their own iPad apps, even if they’re bad. Eventually, one of them might come up with the next Angry Birds.
One of the reasons I decided to go with self-publishing was my realization that editing was no longer a priority with the “gatekeepers”. I didn’t trust them to help me with my book. At all. That’s also why I’m buying more self-published books to read. If the quality of the story is the same, why pay more?
The re-published fanfiction (Fifty Shades of Grey) doesn’t help, either.
This is not true of the publishers I work with. Editing is a huge part of the equation– macro, micro, copyedit. In the past year we have made some tough decisions with regard to choosing a house based on which editor our author will get to work with.
There are still Maxwell Perkins-types out there. Ask anyone who’s received a Dave Lambert edit or had Liz Heaney work on a book.
I wonder where these generalizations are coming from? I guess I need to be thankful that we work with editors who care deeply about the quality of the work they publish.
Lucretia, hopefully no one is stigmatizing authors for self-pubbing or e-pubbing. I was talking about doing it backwards if your goal is to get an agent or a traditional publisher for that book.
You make an interesting point, however, that by making a failed foray into publishing you end up with a more realistic and maybe more creative author. there’s a lot of merit to that argument.
Just to clarify one thing about what I wrote, I have nothing against self-publishing. I’m taking that path myself.
However, I do have a problem with those who think that self-publishing is another path to a traditional book deal. I’m still shaking my head at the people who sent you those books.
I’m curious if any of you who self-published, whether ebooks or physical books, used editors to go over your work before your produced it?
And could you tell me your reasoning either way?
Hi Michelle
In my case, I am a career writer turned author, so I wouldn’t go to that expense for the odd grammatical of spelling error.
I am sure a fresh pair of eyes is always useful; you always miss something whatever your background. But, even this is no guarantee, as I have noted that many so-called professionally edited, traditionally published books have errors.
I think perhaps this service is useful if you are new to writing.
I wish you well
Alice
PS – I am an e-published writer, for the reasons above.
I do the structural revision/edit myself. I make sure I give my story a few months between when it’s finished and when I do the edit, during which time I focus on other things so that my mind comes at it as much as possible from the perspective of a reader. This seems to work well.
For the copy edit/proofing, I use a programmer I know who not only has a better command of the English language than I, but who, as part of his job, is used to spending time looking at and evaluating little details. I’ve been pleased with his work. It helps that I can pay him with food, lol.
My reasoning? Money. No, actually it’s more than that. What little experience I have has told me finding a good editor is hit or miss. I feel lucky that I have one I consider good, who works on a barter system, lol. And since I have next to no capital and am just starting out in this publishing venture, I feel this is good for now. If this changes, or it proves undesirable for whatever reason, I’ll consider other options.
While I certainly hope to go the traditional route, self publishing is on the table. Either way, I will have a professional editor review my work before submitting. Beyond the standard proof-reading for grammar and typos, I feel that a professional eye toward story, sub-plots, etc. would be invaluable and worth the relatively small expense. And no, I don’t have the money to throw around. Even a seasoned writer, I would think, would benefit from the wisdom of one as experienced as his/her own self.
Michelle:
I did not use an editor for mine. I had several beta readers give me feedback for my non-fiction book, though I found the whole beta reader thingy to be a big disappointment. I also ran several chapters through a couple of real life critique groups. For my short stories, I ran them through critique groups. For my two novels that I will soon self-publish, same thing. I realize a copy editor and a line editor might improve any of my works, but I can’t afford them. So I have to become the best proofreader and editor I can be.
We also believe there are many good reasons to self-publish. I spoke with a woman at one conference who had great numbers for a regional cookbook that sold in restaurants, gift shops and gas stations in her resort community.
When I asked her why she wanted to be represented, she talked about the recognition factor and the desire to have someone else handle the books–getting them into the hands of the retailers with whom she worked.
I told her she was doing a great job by herself and didn’t need an agent. She was surprised to hear it, but went away, I hope, a little more confident about her nice little business.
I self publish because I teach a study at church every year, and my students need books. I pray that someday I will have a wider audience, and an editor who will assist me in fine-tuning my books. I pray that I will be faithful in the small tasks now, in order to develop skills to use with larger audiences later. Honestly, this post is discouraging and a little confusing. I am a writer. I am going to write, whether my audience is large or small.
Ruth, I’m sorry my post was discouraging. I’m an encourager at heart. It sounds like you have the perfect platform for self-publishing.
I wanted to address the mistaken idea that self-publishing a particular book was a good way to gain an agent’s and/or publisher’s interest in THAT book.
As I said earlier, I’ve encouraged several of my clients to self-publish.
Um, yikes! Yes, I don’t think you should have to send the book back if you didn’t request it in the first place. After all, they could have just emailed a query.
This was a very interesting post. I agree with you that it’s a quandary why authors self-publish and then approach literary agents to help market the book. Those authors simply do not understand what the agent’s role is.
However, while I also agree that “building a significant literary career takes perseverance,” I think that you imply that self-published authors leap in without any thought or perseverance. Some do, of course, but many others don’t. Off the top of my head, I can think of several self-published authors who queried and queried with no success or had literary agents who could not snag a traditional deal. Many of these books are good. Really good. And I give them credit for making a go of it on their own.
The industry is changing. I think it’s a little unfair of literary agents and/or traditional publishers to chastise self-published authors for not willing to “wait,” when perhaps it is the traditional publishers who may need to adapt to the changing marketplace and rethink how they do business.
In the two years since I’ve started my blog, self-publishing has gone from career suicide to a truly worthwhile option. It’s here to stay. And I, for one, am glad. 🙂
You said, “I think that you imply that self-published authors leap in without any thought or perseverance. Some do, of course, but many others don’t.”
Valid point. (And I know that. I generalized where I should have been more careful.)
First, funny ad. Second, I can’t believe you sent those books back. I would have put them in my fire place. Not to be mean, but just because I thought it was a given that things that don’t come with an SASE is trashed.
I’m not giving up (yet) on the traditional route. Recently got a wonderful reject (!) when agent wrote: “I considered adding your mss to my list. . .” Being “considered” was a wonderful, almost there, comment. Time to break out the bubbly.
I love your attitude. Back when I was writing I kept all rejections in a binder with sections labeled “form rejections,” “personal rejections,” “Encouraging rejections,” and “Acceptances.” At first I filled the first section but as I got better the rejections went into deeper sections until the acceptance section was getting the most play.
My friend, Randy Ingermanson, talks about a pre-published career looking like our school career– freshman, sophomore, junior, senior. When you get rejections like the one you described you can be sure you’ve entered your senior year.
I love his breakdown of the pre-published career. It helps me, even now.
I still use his Snowflake Method for building my novels.
I, too, am older. Yet, I believe in a Sovereign God who has my days and years numbered and will allow me to accomplish what he deems fit. It that means being published by a traditional publisher, then I will praise Him for the opportunity. And while I am waiting I will learn. While I am waiting I will read. While I am waiting I will continue to develop characters, and story lines, and plots that thrill my own heart. And, who knows–they may become my best friends if I reach that time in life when I don’t realize I AM waiting.
If I never get published by a traditional publisher, then my kids and grandkids will find my self-pubbed works tucked away in pretty green binders, or in my computer marked ‘Wanna Be’. And they will laugh and say, “remember how she used to think . . .”
But, I WILL perservere. I will grow older, and wiser and perhaps more patient. But I will wait.
Thank you, Wendy, for this very thought provoking, and much controversy induced article.
Just want you to know that I love your comment! Keep at it, Julane!
I love your attitude!
Ditto what Robert said. Thank you Julane for retuning our perspective.
As an older “wannabe” author, I agree with you Julanne. Right now, I’m just having fun writing, learning the business and meeting lots of great folks like everyone here. It doesn’t get any better than this to pursue something that gives you joy and peace. And, to share the love of our Creator in the process! God bless to everyone here in the way that they choose to publish.
Always on my mind: Grandma Moses and Laura Ingalls Wilder. 🙂
Here’s a thought. Maybe some self-published authors are querying you because the establishment has been sooo effective at hammering in the idea that an author isn’t a “real” author unless she has an agent or a publishing contract, and that the self-published are the lowest dreck. Hmmm?
When I first self-published, I did so because it seemed like an exciting, interesting experiment (and I was assured by several literary agents with whom I was friendly that I wasn’t tanking my career by doing so… so there’s that). I wasn’t impatiently trying to jump in line, and I hadn’t “failed” at anything. I’d actually had a number of manuscript requests from agents. I wanted to “go indie” because it seemed like an adventure and I like adventures.
I’ve immensely enjoyed the experience so far, and I still consider it a good move on my part career-wise too. BUT I never anticipated the disgust with which some people in the industry (and some readers) would treat me simply because I don’t have a publisher. I can’t believe the prejudice that some people hurl at those authors who are bold/brave/crazy enough to strike out alone. It astounds me. I was completely blindsided by it.
I think a lot of authors struggle with that prejudice and stigma (even if they are raking in loads of cash, as some are) and they seek to remedy it the only way they know how–by trying to get an agent.
Of course, not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur, and I mean that sincerely and without malice. So self-publishing is NOT for everyone, and not everyone is making scads of money or selling thousands of books. But it can be an excellent experience and an excellent career move for some.
I do share your sentiment about losing that 15%, however. Why in the world would someone want to sign on an agent to take 15% of the profits if that isn’t necessary?
You make some great points, like “not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur.”
You also said, “BUT I never anticipated the disgust with which some people in the industry (and some readers) would treat me simply because I don’t have a publisher.” I would reject that response as ignorant out of hand. It doesn’t merit your attention.
The trouble for me is, every time I try to discuss anything about self-publishing, those who are self-published hear only criticism, not what I’m saying. For instance my point today was that if the goal of a writer is to secure an agent and a traditional publishing deal for a specific book, self-pubbing that book is not a good way to accomplish that. If you read the comments, note how many people only heard a criticism of self-publishing.
And about your final point– why would anyone give up 15% when it’s not necessary. A word in defense. Agents are worth every penny. We do so much more than just selling a book but even in that process, if you could see the contract an agented author would end up with as opposed to an unaccented author, you’d realize we cost our clients nothing. We are value-added. There. See we can get defensive as well. 🙂
Great discussion! Thank you.
Wendy:
Yes, some of the comments to this post have been harsh against you, unjustly so. I hope mine wasn’t. The focus of your post was quite narrow: Don’t send an agent your self-published book thinking the mere fact that you published your book yourself is some kind of inside track to traditional publishing. Given that narrow focus, your post is fine, and a lesson that all who self-publish anything should learn.
But we who have done some self-publishing have become kind of jaded against what we see as a closing of ranks by publishing insiders against self-publishing in general. When a well-known Christian writer, a sweet man almost everyone on this blog knows, repeats this from a newsletter he receives: “However, the truth is that self-publishing does NOT make anyone a published author. The only way a writer can be considered a legitimately published author is when they are paid an advance by a publishing house to create and distribute their book”, and claims it as the truth, we get a little more jaded. It’s kind of hard to reject such a statement as ignorant, or to say it doesn’t merit attention, when it’s said by a Christian writer whose books cover several decades.
As you have said, the reasons why someone might self-publish a given book, or might reject the traditional publishing route, are many. Some are legitimate. The age factor is huge for many of us. Time is running out.
Admittedly the article rubbed me the wrong way yesterday, but with a cooler head now–I’m sorry that I insinuated that agents do no work or have no place or value in the publishing world. I know that they do, and I know some very excellent agents that I’d be honored to work with if I was going the traditional route.
I was referring to the fact that some authors are determined to have an agent WHETHER THEY NEED ONE OR NOT (granted some indies use agents to sell film rights and negotiate foreign contracts and so forth), and that mindset frustrates me. Having an agent is a sort of status symbol among authors and writer-hopefuls–or at least among most of the authors I know–they display the name of their agent on their twitter profiles and blogs and gush about them and name-drop and so forth. The agent seems to bequeath a legitimization, and I’ve even seen writers freely admit that.
I think some authors want an agent just so they can be part of the club, if you will, although 15% seems a high price to me if you don’t need the agent for what you’re doing.
Anyway, there are a lot of intense emotions on both sides. Good discussion!
Agents know what sells and I trust them to make good decisions on my behalf. I write what I like to read, but cannot find. If no one else wants to read it, there’s no point in self-publishing. I’ll simply keep working at it until I find an agent who believes my work will sell.
When people hear I write, their first question is whether I am published. When I say no, often they want to tell me of someone they know who self published. Early on I had many encourage me this direction as it was the new thing. I had to finally come to the point and decide what success would look like for me. Did I just want to be published? No, I wanted to write and I wanted to learn to write the best I could. I decided that until I could get the attention of the “gate keepers” then I still had a lot to learn. (and probably even after)
God may have given me the gift, but like any gift whether art or vocals, I must learn to hone fine tune that craft.
Wendy, thank you so much for this blog.
First, I think you were generous to return those books at your own expense (time and energy as well as money).
Secondly, self-publishing is an issue that I struggle with. It seems to be the wave of the future, especially in regards to e-books. However, I feel a need to be published in the traditional way. I appreciate the gate-keepers. To have a manuscript accepted by an agent and a publishing house means that professionals see it as a professional product. Basically anyone who has the money can self-publish a book. Garrett makes a valid point that the content should be the most important thing, not the method by which a book has been published. Also, as others have said, some writers don’t rush through the process; they self-publish after years of trying the traditional route. I have a novel that I have been working on for years. I am now on the sixth draft, trying to hone it to as high a quality as possible. Meanwhile, I am blogging, writing short stories and sending them to magazines, and working on a shorter YA fantasy novel. I have considered self-publishing the YA novel in order to try to make a name for myself, but I have not been happy about that idea. Your blog has confirmed my misgivings. Thank you for the information.
Great post today. I can say with almost complete certainty that I will never self-publish anything. And it’s not because I have a problem with self-pubbing. I think it’s wonderful that we have so many options today. But my biggest fear in this whole writing adventure is that I will publish something that one day I’ll look back on and blush. I like the idea of the gatekeepers making sure my work is not just acceptable, not just good but excellent. If it’s not excellent, I don’t want my name on it. And I’m not so confident in my abilities to critique my own “babies” that I’m willing to take the chance. Instead I will wait for God to open the doors to traditional publishing and trust His perfect timing.
Interesting post. Although, this doesn’t relate to me personally, since I am not interested in traditional publishing. Regretfully, I think the royalty rates and the way the author is treated in traditionally publishing as a system is disrespectful.
But I like this blog, I think it’s very cutting edge for a literary agency, and I’m very interested in how agents are managing the changing landscape. That said, I’m writing a response to say that I might reconsider writing a post like this in the future.
Maybe that’s a harsh thing to say, but I have to say it’s abit painful to watch an entire industry become outdated, and I actually write posts like this to be helpful. (although I don’t know if they do anything other than bug people. But I can hope). 🙂
So, I’m not sure what your goal is, except to receive less queries from self-publishers (which we both know won’t happen) and a possible underlying agenda to discourage people from self-publishing…?
However, all signs point to the probablity that legacy publishing is not going to survive, and authors will be taking the wheel increasingly. I believe it would be very smart for agents to stop acting quite so much like bed partners with legacy publishing.
Writing anything that could potentially push any writer away from seeking your services; that allies yourself with publishers too firmly; that gives writers a bad feeling in the pit of their stomach is just not a good idea for an agent to do right now.
This phrase: “we’re talking about terra firma right now, not what’s predicted out in the ether, right?”
But “the ether” is pretty close! The Kindle was only invented in November, 2007. That’s less than 5 years!
I believe agents need to present themselves as allies to all writers, and stop presenting themselve quite so much as industry gatekeepers.
In other words, you will very much want the queries from the self-published authors in the future. I wouldn’t discourage them, or talk about putting them in the recyling bin, now.
Interesting points, Mira. In our agency we are straddling the old and the new. Earlier this month we had a video webinar for all of our clients to introduce some new models of publishing. We do not have our heads in the sand. And yes, the publishers are colleagues and friends but we are looking to be facile and meet the needs of our clients.
You suggested we present ourselves as allies to all writers. We try! That’s why, as an agency, we put so much time into blogging. It’s our conversation with writers. But we’re called to take care of our clients and that’s where we spend 90% of our time.
As for reconsidering “writing a post like this in the future,” we just write what’s on our minds. Some of it is inspired, some of it dreck, probably most somewhere in between. This post grew out of frustration with writers who don’t have a clear direction for seeking traditional representation or publication.
Our industry won’t become outdated as long as we all keep talking. Changes are happening every day– some good, some not– but as long as we keep talking we’ll work it out. I appreciate your part of the conversation.
Wendy, what a nice response, thank you! Usually agents ignore me, or explain to me how I’m completely misinformed and don’t understand what I’m talking about. Thank you for the really friendly response. I appreciate it, and I continue to be impressed with your blog and agency. 🙂
I don’t on any level think this blog post is ‘dreck’. I understand the point you’re trying to make – but…
My opinion is that it would be a good idea for agents to welcome any query with open arms and encourage writers to experiment.
But you’ll make your own best decision. I’m just sharing my thoughts and appreciate that you listened! I agree that everyone communicating is the best thing!
After sending a hundred queries and waiting for months to get back rejections of our work, self-publishing seems the last hope. We do it, not because our work was rejected, but because it was never looked at. A huge wall appears that says, “Keep Out! We have too many queries already!”
Self-publishing is a salvage mission for the disheartened looking for some tiny oasis of hope. Unfortunately, the oasis is most often a mud puddle on a drying sidewalk.
Well said, P.J.
Sad.
You’ve put words to the part of our industry I hate. The fact that time and resources don’t allow us to give everyone a fair read.
“Self-publishing is a salvage mission for the disheartened looking for some tiny oasis of hope. Unfortunately, the oasis is most often a mud puddle on a drying sidewalk.” I’ve never heard it said quite as powerfully, P. J.
(If you write like this, I can’t imagine that your writing won’t find a home. Maybe it’s a collision between your subject matter and the market?)
Dude. I just fist pumped this. This couldn’t be a more spot on way to say how this feels.
And all it does is make me ragey that someone who could write what you just put up here is on the wrong side of that stupid wall.
If I self publish a book because I know the appeal will be too limited to get a book deal (my dissertation, for example), will that work against me later on when I try to find representation for a more viable project?
No. As long as that is not THE book you are trying to sell to publishers.
The only downside as I said in my blog is that sales of your e-book will arguably offer a benchmark to potential publishers of the reach of your own platform. In the case of a dissertation, say, it would be easy enough to offer the footnote that would explain limited sales.
Remember, nothing is set in stone. We talk in generalities to be able to make a point, but, believe me, if your book was a stunner, agents and publishers would ignore all else. I sold a book at auction a few months back with vigorous bidding from five publishers. Authors last book? Minuscule niche sales. The book I auctioned? The perfect storm of writing, subject and timing.
Wendy, I thought (hoped) that would be the answer, but wanted to double check lest I do something foolish!
Jeez. There are so many agent blogs this week that are saying how self-publishing is the work of the devil if you ever intend to try to go all “legit” in the long run.
Maybe not everyone is trying to traditionally publish a book because the self publish failed. Maybe some people just want to see their words on paper.
And maybe some people self publish because their first try didn’t make it traditionally, but that shouldn’t have any bearing on another manuscript. In fact, a self published first book to me would indicate that they went through the process once and that wold most likely denote growth.
Honestly, at this point, if you ever chose to self publish anything, it makes you a literary pariah. Should we never bother trying to publish anything the traditional way lest our haunted self pubbed past be dredged up?
I appreciate the hell out of any advice an agent or seasoned professional gives. I read all the blogs, I take the notes, I learn and grow. But at some point, the holders of the keys to the castle pointing out how you aren’t ever going to play with the big kids just as a general rule, well, it stings some.
But Summer, I didn’t say any of those things, did I? (No question– I need to write more clearly.)
We’re talking about self-pubbing your book first before trying to get an agent interested in that very book or a publisher to buy that book. My post was about “Doing it Backwards”– self-pubbing and then seeking an agent FOR THAT BOOK.
Let me say it clearly– you are not a literary pariah if you DIY. I’ll say it again: I’ve helped many a client self-pub when it was appropriate.
This is such an interesting discussion! I’m really glad to see an agent’s perspective on self-publishing. For myself, I want to go the traditional route, but I’ve met accomplished authors who have marketing experience and think they can make more money being self-pubbed. And maybe they can. I think the decision about whether to self-publish or not ultimately depends on an individual’s end goal and personal set of skills.
And also, a self published story that pros see as a failure might not be for any of the reasons you imagine. Maybe they never marketed it. Maybe they don’t know *how* to market it.
Maybe, after the hard work and blood that goes into writing a story, and then to have been turned down with a certainty, it gets thrown on Amazon or Barnes and Noble just so the poor bastard author feels like it wasn’t a complete waste. That maybe someone, somewhere might read their words and feel something, even if it wasn’t deemed worthy by traditional standards.
Self publishing is not indicative of failure. There are stories attached to each of those books, and being judged on them with a less than casual glance is a disservice the industry.
Of all the businesses, you would think publishing would learn to not judge a book by it’s cover.
“Self publishing is not indicative of failure. ” I can’t believe anyone is really implying that, Summer.
If I’ve learned one thing from our discussion today, I’ve learned that folks who self-publish have been battered and are reacting with a knee-jerk. It will make me more careful in the future. I told my colleague, Rachelle Gardner, to remind me not to tackle an issue having to do with self-publishing for a long time. I never meant to rub salt in any wounds.
I don’t mean to pick, but this is from the blog:
“If you are coming to me to represent a book that is already published I can only assume the DIY (do-it-yourself) process was a failure.”
I know you don’t mean to rub salt. I saw your comment to Ms. Gardner on Twitter because I do whatever networking I can. I see a lot of agents posting things that smart those of us on the outside.
Wendy,
Do you need a hug? 🙂
This is an interesting discussion. I think it was very kind of you to return their books.
I did self publish my first book because it’s a book for ministry, not one I expect to get famous for or to make a lot of money with. If I could, I’d give it away for free and I have, when I can. It depends on the purpose of the book.
I WILL be successful with my future books, whether I go traditional or self-pub! 🙂 Thanks for the open discussion and dialogue here. I appreciate reading your professional thoughts and opinions.
I think I understand your point– that self-pubbing is not the way to go about gaining a traditional writing career. This is one of the greatest reasons I will be e-pubbing my first novel with Westbow Press. I am not interested in a traditional career in writing, including the harrowing, gate-kept route to get there. I am called to write, but I cannot live the expected life of speaking, traveling, keeping up with a regular blog, etc. (Books and Such may not be an agency that leaves its authors to a majority of the marketing, but I am well aware there are plenty of agencies that do.) My personality is not bent for all of that, nor would my life situation permit it. And yet, once again, I know that I know that I know that I was called by God to write. Therefore, I have to believe that God has kept me in the quiet, nameless writing phase until now, when self-publishing is fast becoming a viable way to share my work with the world. I’m not saying I am not willing to lift a finger to promote myself. That I’ll do, in the way God has planned for me with the amount of success He deems appropriate. So, I guess all of this makes me a pretty good candidate for self-publishing!
The most important thing is you have a plan and you’ve thought long and hard about what you want to do and what you do best. Being your own publisher is akin to stating a business and it requires a plan. You’ve done that.
Yes! It is so good to get to know yourself, as a person and a writer, and to submit yourself to God. That’s when the plan comes together. Thanks for taking on what seems to be a pretty touchy subject!
Wow, Wendy Lawton, troublemaker!
But she’s so doggone NICE about it.
Reading the original post, I quite agree with Wendy. If you self-pub a book and it’s just sitting there, asking an agent to rep it and get it to a publisher so it doesn’t just sit there is unrealistic. What possible business reason would they have to take this on and try to find readers for it, when readers have largely voted to stay away?
Wendy’s point is right on, from an industry standpoint. The discussion has morphed into something about self-publishing v. traditional in general. So…
To anyone considering e-self-publishing, which is a wonderful new channel for writers that has never existed before in the history of man, and which enables a writer to be completely free and responsible for his or her own work, I say: treat it like a business and be just as objective and tough on yourself as a trad publisher or agent would be. They would be asking: is the writing not just adequate, but great? Is there an audience for it? Why would somebody plunk down money for this thing? Can the writer keep producing quality, over and over?
IOW, don’t go into self publishing as an instant gratification thing that will, ipso facto, help you storm the gates of the Forbidden City. You better go into it knowing you’re going to have prove yourself as a writer and marketer.
And to those who are looking for that traditional contract, and who even get one, go with your eyes open. It’s just the start of the challenge of discoverability in an age of shrinking shelf space, low advances, and minimal marketing budgets. And if things don’t work out sales wise, the publisher is not going to be your safety net. They are not designed to be. They are designed to be a business, with a bottom line. If your bottom is below the line, you’re going to be looking for a new house. Or at self-publishing, which you could have been doing all this time.
So things are fluid like never before. Which means lack of certainty, from all angles. There is not one answer or one size fits all. Your personality, risk aversion, sense of adventure, objectivity, self-discipline, and desire to turn out work all have to be measured.
But first, above and always: you have to be able to deliver the goods. You have to be able to write. Keep that your constant, every day objective, getting better at what you do.
If you do, you have a chance at getting an agent as good as Wendy Lawton to consider your work. Or to sell it directly to readers in enough volume to make some significant bank.
Jim is one of the authors I was thinking about when I said that some bestselling authors have intentionally taken the route of self e-pubbing. And he’s doing a bang-up job.
I’m looking forward to debating you, Jim, on self-pubbing vs. traditional pubbing in just a fortnight at Mount Hermon Writer’s Conference. Of course by reading my comments here you’ve seen way too much of my material. 🙂
Lol! You come up with some great replies, Wendy. Keep ’em coming. 🙂
I’m loving this discussion. It was good to hear your thoughts, Jim.
Wow. Wendy, you’re just so darn nice. You “take the high road” to an even higher level.
You have nerves of steel. And a heart of gold.
Thanks for being brave enough to dive into the murky pond where others dare not tiptoe.
Thanks, Cynthia, but I’ve loved this discussion. It’s not where I intended to go but I had a lot to learn. That’s what community is all about.
Hello!
I come here often to read the blogs (love the information here!), but this is my first time replying.
I am in the process of writing a mystery which should be done this month. I wrote it in partnership with someone close to me (we brainstormed the idea, I write it, she edits it). The mystery was always intended to be self-published (online). She told me upfront that was how she wanted to do it. I agreed for this book as I thought it might help me to attract readers, see how my writing is received, and possibly build a following before I start trying to find an agent. We are not planning on ever trying to get the self-published book published in the traditional way.
However, I have written two books on my own and am working on a trilogy. I do want to follow the traditional publishing and agent process with these.
So my question is, will being self-published in the past with one book be a negative in most agent’s eyes when considering other books? Could it strongly affect whether or not an agent will consider my other books?
Maybe this was mentioned in the article, but I didn’t notice it if it was.
Thank you,
Leah
Never mind, I found a reply to someone else that answered my question! Thank you!
Great discussion going on here! The only comment I have to make since it morphed into a discussion about self publishing in general is the editing situation. I have a few old manuscripts that have never sold to publishers but there is no way in the world I would ever publish them without paying for a top notch editor. I’m not talking about typos. Those are no big deal. I’m talking about STORY, about conflict, character arc, all the myriad things that a great editor (often including our agent) brings to the table. There is no way in the world any author can look at the work dispassionately. We’re too close to it. We need someone to come alongside and say hey this would be better if you did this and have you thought about deepening the character in this area, etc.
I learn so much from my editors and my agent with every single book. Even with as many books as I’ve published, I would never put out a book that didn’t have a stamp of approval from a good editor and my agent. For one thing, I don’t want to stop learning. You never arrive as an author. There can always be improvement. Having readers is not the same as having a good editor. It’s so worth the investment. That book will be out there for a long time,
Just something to think about. 🙂
Well said, Colleen!
Colleen, I so glad you addressed this. I’ve noticed some writers when discussing edits only refer to copyedits. That’s the easiest edit. When we talk edits we are talking about a number of different edits. The substantive edit is where an editor reads the whole book and basically takes it apart, making each part is as strong as the next. A good substantive edit will take a good book and make it sing. Books are also edited, line by line, copyedited, edited for veracity, etc.
Self-published authors need to avail themselves of this in-depth polishing. It’s vital.
This is wonderful advice, Wendy! Thank you!
How do you feel about writers who are seeking traditional publishers but decide to try to publish earlier works with smaller presses?
If you do something like this and it’s successful it will help. If it isn’t successful, you won’t draw attention to it, so it’s neutral. If it shows up everywhere an editor may be doing due diligence then it spooks to what a good marketer you are. They’ll ask about it and you’ll explain that first foray into indie publishing.
Awesome feedback! Much appreciated. Thank you, Wendy.
We have listened to the debate since our involvement in the industry for more than a decade.
All I know is that we have sold more than 100,000 copies in our self-published (NOT P.O.D.!) children’s book series, The Adirondack Kids®, so far.
Our 12th book in 12 years will soon be released and there is no doubt in our minds God led us this way, and we are thankful. Proverbs 16:3 🙂
Pretty impressive. You’ve built a nice business and, from the looks of your website, you treat it like a business. It’s a great model.
Oh, yes. And what James Scott Bell said. 😉
Wendy, my first thought is that by admitting you actually take the time to send books back, you may have set yourself up to get more. Yikes!I’m praying that won’t be the case. God bless your diligence, though.
I know there are those who strike out on their own and do well. Some are already established authors and others have a message or platform that sells. I personally love the team idea of prepping a book for readers. It’s that Body of Christ thing (why my blog is named for it). No one person knows all of what is needed. We were made to work in communion with each other. I hope to have an opportunity to work in one of those teams where each member brings a piece to make the whole all of what it can me.
To me that’s the best part of what I do, being on a team. (It takes a village, right?)
You are being more than fair about it. What they really should be doing is building a platform to help you sell books off of, but it is very hard to tell them that. OK, thanks and good luck. Edward Smith.
And that was what I wrote about in my blog post today. https://booksandsuch.com/blog/published-author-seeks-readers/ 🙂 Thanks for the plug, Edward.
As a Canadian, self-published author, I am reading these comments with great interest. From my perspective as a Canadian, unless you are Janette Oke or Sigmund Brouwer, it is extremely difficult to find agent representation here in Canada. It makes it virtually impossible when I write contemporary Christian novels for young adults.
For that reason most Canadian authors must look to the U.S. to be traditionally published and since my books have a lot of Canadian content in them, most agents and traditional publishing houses would not consider my work.
I decided to go with a Canadian Christian POD publishing house based in Winnipeg, who has published all three of my books and has succeeded in distributing my books to all Christian bookstores in Canada.
My books have won awards in Canada and even in the States with their anti-bullying messages, but if I am reading the majority of these comments right, it would appear that self-published books (and their authors) regardless of the accolades, have a strike against them when they wish to traditionally publish books after the fact.
Is that correct?
But Lynn, you’re getting that from reading the comments, which are anecdotal evidence. Not from my blog post, I hope.
The book you’ve already published (catch that distinction? The already published book not the author) has a strike against it if that were the book you were trying to sell to a publisher (or attract an agent to represent). That is because you’ve already had it out there and perhaps already mined the best of the sales for this book. Your book would now have as much clout as any other out of print book we’re offering for reprint rights. You can’t offer it as an unpublished book. Book contracts even state that the book has never been published in whole or part.
I’m afraid many of the commenters did not get that distinction– I’m talking about a book (self-pubbed) that has already had it’s rights exploited.
I’m NOT talking about the author who may have self-published. New book = fresh chance.
Let me restate it here–not because you don’t understand–but for all the readers who seem to hear me saying something I’m not:
In my blog post I talked about writers who sent me their already self-pubbed books. They gave that book their best shot and, apparently, it didn’t work out because they are coming to me as Plan B.
Were that writer to come to me with a whole fresh project that I loved, would the fact that they had self-pubbed their first book affect the deal?
No.
I mean, I might wish they had been patient with that book and let me take a look at their whole career, but if I love the new project, nothing is going to stop me from wanting to be on that author’s team.
And, Lynn, from what I’ve sensed about you from this short comment– that you are award-winning, have a unified brand, a following and have been successful regionally but not necessarily outside of Canada — you’d have a good shot at representation in US if that was what you were seeking.
Thank you for clarifying that for me, Wendy.
I think your comments are interesting. I’m self-published, selling well, and loving it! I’m very glad it’s the path I was led to since essentially I am running my own business. But sometimes when you run your own business, you have to outsource. I’ve been considering an agent because they should have contacts to help me expand internationally and to possibly get my book wider print distribution. It would be part of my business expansion plan, not a desperate plea for help to sell a book that is already selling well. I really don’t understand why an agent would not be interested in earning additional income on books with a proven track record. I would also think with the rise of self-publishing that forward thinking agents would want to expand their business models as well, rather than stick to the old ways.
We’re always refining what we do but good agents all have very, very full practices. Why would an agent want to represent bits and pieces of a writers career when that slot could be filled with a writer who is offering his entire career– the thing we do best?
Another issue– I’ve had requests from several self e-pubbed authors to sell their print rights. The reality is, that’s never going to happen. I can’t see any publisher in the 21st century buying print-only rights, no matter how fabulous a book may be. By pulling out some of the rights and exercising them yourself, you’ve made the remaining rights difficult (if not impossible) to sell.
The best thing we do as agents is take care of the whole author– from brand to books. I think you’d have a hard time parcelling out your career and finding someone interested in coming alongside you for only a small a piece of it.
As a businesswoman, I’m guessing you’re going to work all this out yourself– becoming not only publisher but agent. I’m wishing you great success.
I think that is short-sighted, and I’m not sure it’s accurate – maybe I’m comfused.
But first, if current agents won’t provide this service, it’s highly likely that very soon new agencies will rise up to provide this service for authors.
Agents might be wise to consider expanding their services to successful self-publishers. Hire more agents if neccessary. In fact, offering piecemeal services to authors would be smart before other companies rise up and fill in the gap. After all, why turn down extra money?
As for no publisher granting print rights only – are you including any and all publishers there, or just the Big 6? Because wasn’t Barry Eisler (or was it someone else?) recently offered a print rights only deal? And are you sure all independent publishers are operating that way?
Regardless, if they are not doing it now, they won’t be soon.
Also Amazon is signing authors who e-publish with them. Are agents not willing to deal with Amazon?
Also, are you aware your last two sentences sounded rather hostile? Was that intentional or a misunderstanding on my part?
John Locke recently signed a distribution deal for his books. He didn’t sign away any of his rights. I wouldn’t want to either. For self-published authors, we can sell thousands on Amazon, create a great following and a good platform, but even a guy like Locke can sell more books through a deal like this. What we lack is the ability to get distribution of print books world wide. I’d love to have my books available at stores other than Amazon. As with any business, contracts can be written in whatever way is mutually beneficial. Locke is a glowing example of this fact. And thanks for your wishes of success, but no, I don’t think I can do it all myself. That’s why I said I’m interested in finding an agent.
John Locke, that’s who it was! Thanks. 🙂
Piecemealing is not just about the extra money, actually, but about not leaving an opening for other businesses to encroach.
Just some thoughts…
Mira and Jillian, I’m happy to leave an opening for new business opportunities for others. Getting print books of successful ebooks distributed worldwide might very well be a much-needed service. Admittedly complicated (like foreign rights with all the different tax filings, etc.) and, unless you are talking mega authors, it would be hard to make it profitable using an agency model.
Maybe someone reading this will get a bee in his bonnet and begin exploring the possibilities.
I know what I do, however, and I do it well. In order to do that, I need to be careful not to stray too far afield and to make the very best use of my time to care for my clients.
Yeah, I couldn’t remember if it was him or Konrath, so I had to look it up. I would think other publishers will follow suit. It will be interesting to see how quickly e-books replace physical copies. I know I haven’t bought a CD for over six years, and it appears that books will become mostly digital as well. I love real books, but I also love being able to carry around a library in my kindle.
Ah, I should have googled it! 🙂
I think the advantages of e-books in terms of efficiency, convenience and access make it a shoo in for the future. The reality is that it’s not easy to buy a paper book in a bookstore. You have to drive there, find the book (good luck) and then you have to haul it around and find light to read it on. A backlit e-reader is instantaneous in terms of being able to buy or read a book anywhere, anytime. I could be wrong, but I suspect the shift will happen pretty quickly.
I find it interesting that this conversation seems to have morphed into a value of ebooks conversation. Too funny. That subject had absolutely nothing to do with the original blog post, but that’s okay. The reason we encourage comments is that this is a conversation– a place for sharing opinions.
I’m certainly not going to argue the value of ebooks. The publishers we work with are doing a bang-up job of ebooks and getting the word out about them. We’ve also been able to steer our clients to some exciting independent publishing solutions.
Don’t forget, agents see hundreds of royalty reports. We don’t have to rely on anecdotal evidence and author claims. Ebooks are an exciting new media, filled with potential.
For myself, I’m an early adopter. I read all fiction on my Kindle and have purchased hundreds of books since the first Kindle arrived at my house. I use a Kindle, an iPad and an iPhone. For some reason I still prefer the physical book for most non-fiction but I’m guessing as our devices get easier to track page and place, that may change.
You’ll get no argument from me.
As to your earlier question about me sounding hostile, you misread that. I don’t do snarky. You have to take what I say at face value. It’s much easier. That’s what I apply to you as well. I try not to read anything in or ascribe attitude. Makes life simpler and oh, so much nicer.
Wonderful article! We will be linking to
this particularly great post on our website. Keep
up the great writing.